SInder Controversy

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1. #1Nanoless

   Keys: Google doc, Nanoless, doc

   Nanoless sparked the controversy by releasing a google document explaining the termination of her working relationship with Sinder and her manager, Red. Nanoless notes that Red and Sinder acted as a team, with Red speaking on Sinder's behalf and Sinder presumably being aware of and consenting to Red's actions. There was a pattern of slandering other creators and spreading rumors immediately after showing affection, aiming to portray others as problematic. They complained about Bao overworking "their" editor and contacted Nanoless to encourage her to cancel a planned VTuber model for Bao. Red also proposed an exclusivity arrangement. Instead of paying a monthly fee for exclusivity, they offered to guarantee commission work for Sinder only. If a creator from their "blacklist," such as Silvervale, requested a commission, Sinder and Red would commission Nanoless themselves to compensate. The primary concern was that the more non-Sinder models Nanoless created, the less "valuable" the existing Sinder models would become, making Nanoless's art and therefore Sinder less "special". Nanoless found this idea that her work was devalued by collaborating with others "insane and hurtful" and realized the arrangement would negatively impact her workload and mental health, leading them to decline. Even after Nanoless expressed discomfort, Sinder and Red continued to speak ill of other creators, such as Shylily, after learning Nanoless was working with her, trying to make other clients seem problematic. They constantly inquired about other clients' plans, stating it "made the antenna go up," and proceeded to slander Shylily, accusing her of "weird petty stuff" and "ghosting" Sinder. They framed their actions as "looking out" for Nanoless and that working only with Sinder was in her best interest. Nanoless found their need to "stay informed" and "gauge the competition" among people Nanoless believed were Sinder's friends toxic. When Nanoless pushed back against being dragged into drama, Sinder and Red responded by bringing up more drama and making "baseless claims" while attempting to guilt trip her. Sinder personally shared feeling compared to Silvervale and living in her shadow.

   Sinder and Red attempted to normalize their behavior by framing it as simply "business". Red later tried to soften the language around exclusivity and also engaged in "damage control", wanting to keep their actions secret from other Vtubers.

2. #2Bao

   Keys: Bao

   Bao responded publicly to Nanoless' google doc and asked everyone to refrain from turning this into a witch hunt and remember that everyone involved is human.

   Regarding her Live2D model commission: After Nanoless finished the design and base model sketch, Nanoless indicated that she might not be able to continue, which devastated Bao, who shared her distress in a private group chat Sinder was part of, but Sinder remained silent while others offered comfort. Bao now realizes Sinder's silence was because Sinder and Redacted were deliberately sabotaging ongoing commissions and blocking vtubers like herself from accessing Nanoless's art while Sinder and REDACTED were collaborating with Bao and acting as friends.

   Bao was dealing with debilitating TMJ pain in late 2024, which Sinder and Redacted knew about, but they implied to Nanoless that Bao was falling off and acting jealous. Bao said she felt hurt knowing her "most vulnerable, darkest moments" shared in confidence may have been used to ruin her chances for the vtuber model.

   In her apology letter, Sinder said:

   [ Sinder always admired Bao and her genuineness. Sinder is disgusted with herself for believing the narrative that friends were "competition". She cherishes her friendships more than Red and "business", especially with Bao, and regrets causing Bao harm and not reaching out sooner about the ideas Red put into her head. She was unaware of the severity of what Red said about her friends behind her back, takes responsibility for not realizing what Red was saying and denies ever condoning any of it. She was initially upset when Bao hired her editor and when Sac decided to work exclusively for Bao and regrets not talking to Bao directly to clear things up.]

   When Bao read that apology letter, she said: "How? How can you say you didn’t know? I showed you both my base model sketch from Nano at Weebcon. We walked on stage and performed together. You were in the group chat where I shared my sadness over Nano suddenly cancelling my model after we were so close to begin Live2D and rigging. And to now find out that just the day before I shared my sadness, this is the conversation that happened that ruined months of debut prep, planning, merch preparation. If you want to apologize to me, please do it properly, and stop hiding behind Red."

3. #3Rayne

   Keys: Rayne, cheating

   After the controversy started, Rayne released his own Google doc detailing his experience 4-5 years ago with Tashi, who later became known as Sinder. He wrote this to 'corroborate Nanoless's assertion' that Sinder is not who she appears to be and that she is as responsible as "Redacted".

   He met Tashi when she was running her Tashi.mp3 YouTube channel. He had a larger ASMR RP channel at the time, and Tashi wanted to work with him, expressing disbelief that someone "talented" liked her voice. They never made content together but talked almost daily.

   Tashi would talk negatively about her boyfriend to Rayne and suggested how great it would be if Rayne were to replace him, calling Rayne "perfect boyfriend material". Explicit interactions, including sexting and more, occurred over several months.

   The relationship began to end after Sinder's character found immediate success. He felt Tashi "got done using" him for "fleeting sexual gratification" and that conversations slowed down as Tashi no longer felt she could "ladder-climb" from the him, who had stopped making content. Eventually, Tashi stopped using the old account and fully committed to Sinder, and he never heard from her again. He was "uncannily aware" this would happen, despite Tashi previously saying she would "never forget" him.

   He describes Sinder as an opportunist who does not care about the people she "springboards off from". He hopes Sinder will use this as an opportunity to change and grow.

   In Sinder's apology letter, she stated that:

   Rayne was the first person Sinder met as an ASMRtist during an immature and vulnerable time. Sinder was unhappy with her personal life and relationship and got lost in the excitement of online attention. She cheated on her boyfriend with Rayne through flirting and sexting. Sinder used Rayne for emotional comfort and sexual fantasy while her real relationship collapsed; it was about her dissatisfaction and escaping. She denies it was about "climbing the ladder" with Rayne. Sinder wanted to leave this past when she debuted as Sinder. Sinder still regrets her decisions and was lucky to mend her relationship. Sinder apologizes to Rayne for dragging him into her drama and how she made him feel when she wanted to close the book.

4. #4Iomaya

   Keys: Iomaya, Nixeu

   In his own Google document, Nixeu (Aka Iomaya) digital artist shared their professional experience with Sinder/RED primarily to vent emotions about a difficult situation and to emphasize the importance of treating artists well and honoring professional deals. The artist explicitly states they do not want public drama or pity.

   Facing challenges reaching people on their shadowbanned main account, Nixeu offered a business collaboration to VTubers. This involved providing free art/illustration with commercial use in exchange for a Patreon shoutout, which was intended to compensate for the artist's time and effort, equivalent to commission costs (approx. $3-4k/2 weeks of work). This was a 1/1 deal where both sides were meant to gain something.

   Nixeu contacted Sinder/RED and clarified the condition of the Patreon shoutout multiple times (like 4 times initially), and they agreed to all the conditions. The artist began working on the art, which involved significant time and effort.

   However, when the drawing was about halfway done, and the conditions were mentioned again, Sinder/RED stated there must have been a miscommunication and were hesitant to showcase the art and Patreon link, fearing it would seem unfair to other artists. This response devastated Nixeu, but they insisted that this was a business collaboration based on the clearly stated conditions.

   After a period on hold, Sinder/RED agreed to fulfill their end of the deal as originally planned, acknowledging a "confusion". Nixeu finished the drawing and provided the art pack, excluding the full NSFW version as agreed. However, checking the stream clip where the art was shown, Nixeu felt "scammed". Sinder appeared uncomfortable, barely mentioned the Patreon directly, and referred people to an art retweet instead of providing a clear shoutout as agreed.

   From the artist's perspective, despite some people finding them through the exposure, they felt that they had worked for weeks essentially for free. Nixeu felt guilty and unworthy initially, questioning if they had done something wrong despite being clear about the terms. The core message is a plea to respect artists and professional agreements.

5. #5Apology

   Keys: Apology

   After the controversy began and several Vtubers stepped forward to release their own google docs detailing negative experiences with Sinder, Sinder released an apology Google doc and went silent. In the doc, she, states there is nothing she can say to make things better, but she will try to explain her point of view and apologize. She addresses several parties affected.

   Red was Sinder's co-content creator and boyfriend since she started making content, managing aspects of her work and being a major part of why she is where she is. As of yesterday, Red is no longer working with her. Their personal relationship is being figured out privately. Red's "hyper business oriented outlook" warped Sinder's view, contributing to an unhealthy work/life balance. She realizes this behavior isn't normal or healthy. Sinder accepts responsibility for things she willingly did and went along with. Sinder does not condone anything Red said about Bao or his use of "we" and "our," believing it was done for credibility. Red got it in his head that Bao was at fault for Sac (Boss Rush MV editor) working exclusively for her and seemingly held a grudge. He created a "headcanon" that future projects wouldn't succeed without Sac.

   The apology doc contained apologies to The artist Nanoless (Nano), Sac (the Boss Rush MV editor), and fellow VTubers, Bao, Cotton, Shylily, Silvervale, Spite, NyanTales, Rayne, and Peaches.

   Sinder also apologizes to her community (Pyro Pups), mods, Kaizer (for not talking to him about how she felt), dozens of artists, and other friends she let down. She admits setting a bad example and doesn't expect forgiveness. Sinder states she's made many mistakes over 5 years online. She highlights her unhealthy work/life balance and the irreparable harm Red caused with his views. She wants to change her perception and needs to address/improve if she continues as a creator. She is devastated friendships may not be mended. Sinder loves her job and friends.

6. #6Silvervale

   Keys: Silver, Silvervale

   Sinder had a constant "obsession" with fellow Wolf VTuber Silvervale, claiming an "unspoken competition" and accusing her of taking Sinder's ideas, despite Sinder's own efforts to sabotage them. She also tried forcing collabs and shipping between herself and Silvervale.

   In her apology letter, Sinder said: Sinder was originally designing a pink and white wolf girl (Tashi) in late 2020 but pivoted after Silvervale revealed a sakura wolf redesign. Sinder chose a hellhound design (Sinder). The name similarity was a coincidence. Sinder genuinely wanted a friendship with Silver and drew fan art. Red constantly pushed the business idea of working together. Sinder was ruthlessly compared to Silvervale, accused of copying her design, personality, and laugh. Sinder grew resentful of Silver due to constant belittling and other incidents, despite Silver never interacting directly. This lack of interaction made Sinder insecure. Sinder felt Silver didn't like her existence. Sinder and Red brought up not making more models for Silver with Nano so they would look less alike. Sinder calls this a "wrong and selfish decision" that made her feel better. Red pushed this harder. Sinder states Silver was "completely undeserving" and her own insecurities led to this choice. Sinder became "unapologetically evil" towards Silver due to no direct action of hers. There is no excuse. Sinder apologizes to Silver, stating she loved sharing interests and hoped for friendship. She was blinded by hate comments. Sinder regrets the person she became towards Silver. She tried reaching out later to make things right, attend conventions, and support her, but was still affected by doubts and fear. Sinder felt community pressure to collaborate. Sinder apologizes for posting a candid photo of Silver at a meet and greet without asking. She was wrong for letting others influence her malicious feelings. Sinder apologizes for any opportunities she took away from Silver.

7. #7Kaizer

   Keys: Editor, Kaizer

   Kaizer was a YouTube editor Bao and Sinder. Bao's initial email to him in 2023 noted awareness of his extensive position with Sinder. Bao and her channel manager only asked Kaizer for one stream highlight per month, respecting his main role. In a group call with editors including Kaizer, Kaizer shared he was afraid to ask Sinder for a raise because he turned down an exclusivity deal. Bao, as a friend to both, encouraged him to take the deal, prioritizing his opportunity even if she lost him as an editor. Other editors can corroborate this. Despite this, REDACTED acted as if Bao "stole" Kaizer, monopolizing him. Bao feels hurt and betrayed knowing Sinder and Redacted portrayed her as a thief and a detriment while she only supported them.

8. #8Sacramore

   Keys: editor, animator, Sac, Sacramore

   REDACTED claimed that Bao "locked him up" (referring to Sacramore, her animator) and told him not to work with her.

   In truth, Sacramore (Sac) has been Bao's animator since 2023. In 2024, Sac asked Bao if he could work exclusively for her in-house without credit so he could quietly work on his personal projects and avoid commission requests from other vtubers. Bao accepted Sac's decision.

   Sac mentioned his wish to be an in-house animator for Bao to her channel manager Jun (Bepis) in December 2024, stating he'd rather be "more an inhouse type of thing for Bao after this thing is done" as it's the "last commission I ever do for anyone besides Bao" and he wants to "make a name for himself through my own content".

   In her apology letter, Sinder said:

   She loved chatting with Sac in person and loved his work on the Boss Rush song. She was grateful he agreed to edit the MV. She doesn't remember exactly why the stream was pushed back but wouldn't blame Sac, knowing the deadline. She was thankful for his willingness and the incredible quality. Said she can't believe how Red talked about Sac after his effort. She apologizes to Sac.

9. #9Spite

   Keys: Spite

   Spite is a Wolf VTuber like Sinder and Silvervable. In her apology letter, Sinder said that:

   Sinder had no involvement or knowledge of Red bringing up Spite to Nano in 2023; her only involvement with excluding someone was Silver. Sinder's design sheet was public early 2021. Sinder doesn't know if her 2022 debut teaser being posted on the same day as Spite's original debut was intentional. After her debut, Sinder was possessive of her design details. When Spite's model updated with fire, Sinder thought she copied her but only voiced frustrations to Red and never acted on it. Sinder explains her ripped shirt/shorts outfit (bikini model coverup) was designed in June 2022 for Twitch safety. Merch art with grayscale and blue fire was based on her blue fire concept; grayscale was the artist's choice. She denies intending to look like Spite with this piece. Her angel and sleepy outfits being similar to Spite's were coincidental. Angel was planned as a demon counterpart. Sleepy outfit was a last-minute pivot for a GamerSupps collaboration. Sinder states Spite did not deserve hate comments, comparisons, or belittling. Sinder never advocated for this. Sinder apologizes to Spite for assuming things about her design and for Red's comments to Nano.

10. #10NyanTales

    Keys: NyanTales

    In Sinder's apology letter, NyanTales is assumed to be the creator Spite mentioned. NyanTales posted a hellhound OC after Sinder's debut using Sinder as a reference. Sinder overreacted due to being protective of her design elements. Sinder apologized shortly after, NyanTales agreed to adjust the design, and Sinder thought it was settled.

11. #11Cotton and Shylily

    Keys: Shylily, Cottontail, CottontailVA, Cotton, Lily

    In her apology letter, Sinder:

    Apologizes for them being dragged into this and for letting it get this far. Claims she had no knowledge of Red bringing them up in Nano's DMs and just learned about it. States if she knew Red was trying to exclude specific friends in the exclusivity deal, she would have spoken up. Friendships are not worth sacrificing over art. Said she loved being their friend and hopes for forgiveness.

12. #12Peaches

    Keys: Peaches:

    In her apology letter, Sinder: Said she (Sinder) struggles to keep up with friends due to workload, low social battery, tiredness, and frequent naps. Apologizes to Peaches for making her feel forgotten or ignored. She cherished Peaches' friendship, was excited to meet her in Paris, and is grateful for what Peaches did. She never intended to purposely drop her.

    Admits getting caught up in work leads to people falling by the wayside. She understands Peaches' resentment and apologizes. Says she was overwhelmed by messages and her low social battery made it hard to keep up. Said she had no ill feelings and still doesn't. She was happy to meet in person and was apologetic about being busy then.

13. #13Excuses

    Keys: excuses

    In her apology letter, Sinder stated that: Nano was Sinder's primary artist for models. Red primarily handled communication and negotiations with Nano through his private DMs. Sinder was not fully aware of the extent of Red's manipulation over Nano's commission decisions. Sinder believed Nano willingly and excitedly agreed to commissions, wanting to make Nano's art the face of her brand. Red and Sinder agreed it would be in Sinder's best interest to negotiate with Nano to cut out other work; Sinder now says this was wrong. Nano cancelled many model commissions in September, of her own volition. Sinder denies just "using" Nano, stating she always treated her with respect and as a friend, accommodated her schedule, helped with her own project payments, invited her on stream, and sent her merch. Sinder was unaware of the exclusivity deal extending to Bao and Cotton, believing it was only about one person (Silvervale) whom Sinder was "unfairly pursuing". When Nano messaged Sinder about this agreement almost a month later, Sinder was upset and her initial messages were "guilt trippy," but she wasn't going to force Nano to do anything she wasn't okay with. Nano had not seriously addressed issues or sought to terminate their partnership through professional means. Sinder was unaware of a recent conversation between Red and Nano about Shylily (Lily); Sinder had only confided in Red that she hadn't heard from Lily and was worried, and Red took it upon himself to investigate. Sinder was also unaware Nano planned to work on a model for Giri. Sinder's "it's just business" screenshot with Nano's document was from November 2023. Red's reasoning was that Nano's models' value diminishes if everyone has one, which Sinder understood but felt wasn't applicable in the vtuber space due to Nano's unique style. Sinder's comment meant her acceptance of Nano's business decisions, not referring to cancellations. Sinder's following comment, which sounded manipulative, was intended to reminisce about their journey and reassure Nano it was okay if she chose not to work with her as frequently. Sinder apologizes to Nano for letting things reach this point and entertaining the idea of exclusivity. She felt overly attached and wanted to make herself exclusive to Nano's art, which should not have been sought reciprocated. Sinder clarifies her comment about models helping Nano improve meant reflecting on their progress together. Sinder always saw Nano as a trusted, loved, close friend, not just a business partner, and wanted to ensure Nano was taking care of herself. She thought she was reassuring Nano she'd be understanding if she moved on.

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